About Corbeil's organization

[Invisible Hedgehog]

I know that there are 42 countries in Corbeil as I was told by Katya Pisetsky who went there.

Ukrainians didn't go because it is not worth. Corbeil is no longer a World Cup. The gym there is extremely small, the ceilings are low and the carpets is too tough, it is often very hot in the training place. and when you go out to compete, you are put in a small corridor where there are 4 more gymnasts practicing and there is simply no place for you to train! and so you go out on the carpet cold and unprepared which can lead to an injury.
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[Tom T]

To IH (Hi!)

Some quick comments before sleep and adjust to time zones...

-IH... Several photographers are coming to the same conclusion of UKR
regarding Corbeil. In recent years ,it is known, several photographers
have stopped covering this event. If we compared notes, there
would be many similiarities.
-All the more reason that Thiais International in late March was such an
amazing event. All the major players were there except Simona Peycheva.
It is clear the major forces in the sport choose Thiais as the early testing
of 2004 strength. At Thiais were many of the best performers (and the
best light for photography). Will they all come to the carpet in Kiev in June
at EC2004?
-On Irina Tchachina's ribbon during Saturday's AA... It was clear in her
expression and as the routine progressed that it was not going well for
her. It was not just one error...it was a series of problems. If a writer had
been allowed to interview her afterward (or even if they hadn't)...her
demeanor and expression was plain to see and Irina knew it was not
her best work. Yet she received the highest ribbon score of all gymnasts.
(Afterward we were scratching our heads and the only way to make sense
of it ...was to reason that certain performers receive 2 or 3 points
for just walking on the carpet. How else to explain?)
-On Sunday and Irina's leaps... At one point I turned to Dirk Zimmermann
after seeing a series of circling leaps by Irina...and said something to him
like, "Is that something new---Isn't that the same as Anya?" (Followed by)
"Is Irina copying Anya's circling leaps now?" Am still wondering...
Well, they are friends off the carpet.

Sorry if some of these points have been mentioned in other threads.
I just got home and only visited this one forum.
Someone with time to study the videos can comment better...

Tom T.

[Guillermo]

Agree with Tom T. that many photographers are thinking about (or already decided) not to come back to Corbeil due to a huge amount of reasons that make it awful to be there. Not only the competitiors complains, but light issues, overexaggerated security measures, rudeness of the "security" people (not really security professionals, but bad faced employees of the City Hall who think they are the "Sheriff of Corbeil" and with absolute power), bad treatment in general.

The only good point (except of the participation, though this year it was poorer that others) was the President of the local club, Mr. Thierry Beau, who helped us a lot and was always in the best disposition, but he has no power against the security mafia there. Those guys have no idea of what a RSG competition is and how it's a good organization worldwide, like in Berlin, Deventer, Zaragoza, Portimao, Ljubljana, etc. It's most coomendable to protect the gymnasts and her environment from fans, press, and so on. It's not coomendable to kidnap them and let her literally not a single free minute in the competition. They were rude to everybody, including gymnasts, little fangirls, delegates... simply stupid!

Gymnasts complain also about the training place, hard warming carpet (just one for all), the "death corridor" where they wait for their turn to perform, with no place to make throwings and warm up... many things.

I'm most likely not ever coming back to Corbeil due to these many reasons. I can't say it for sure, but that's another story...

Guillermo

P.S.: the best, as always, the people (gymnasts, coaches, press, etc).

[Loolita]

hi !!
i'm so sorry to see that corbeil looses its interest even if it was predictable !
some organisateur (thierry beau) said the next year the will make the palais des sports larger (in fact if we draw a comparaison with thiais corbeil is ridiculous )
Moreover as far as fan are concerned is also true that there are a fan zone" in thiais and in corbeil it's a fight in order to have an autograph !!!
all this "bad point" are against the popularity of corbeil but i'm not sure that the organisateur are aware of it !
so perhaps we could send a e mail to them in order explain they play against their own interest.... because after all corbeil is a tradition and it will be a pity that the tournoi stop
tell me what you think about it.....
thx
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[Esther TM]

About the security staff and security rules in Corbeil:

I know that there MUST be rules and in some places, like maybe Corbeil, there must be even stricter rules because of the local conditions.

But rules have to be CLEAR and FOR EVERYBODY, it cannot depend on if the security man likes your face, is in a bad mood or, even worse, depending on your nationality.

I'm really sorry for M.Beau - the president of the local club who helped us at any time - and the people of Corbeil that I got such a bad image of their city because of the most part of the security staff (of course not all of them were nasty, unpolite and narrow minded, but most of them...).

For me it's clear that I won't go again to Corbeil, because I go to a competition to take pictures, to meet friends and to have fun and not to be annoyed during three days, struggling for the easiest things - even to be able to go to the bathroom. I won't pay again for the flight and the hotel to be treated like ....

Esther

[Guillermo]

I do recommend to take a look at Tom Theobald's site. It has a very clear and easy to understand statement. i think this is to be taken into consideration. And one more thing: the Tournament's sport chief must be in charge of the security too. Having a two-headed organization, one for sport and other for "security" and work-bothering is a bad deal for the image of the event. Let those who know this sport manage the organization and leave the modern "cowboys" out of the business.

Just thinking loud...

Guillermo

[Rhythmica]

I've just read Tom's site and I agree with him and with you, Guillermo.
Tone told me what happened at Corbeil with security and is simply... embarrased: they was so rude with gymnast, coaches, judges.... I want believe there is no "modern cowboys" into the organization.
That was very sad, because Corbeil always was a tradition.

[Marina Gc]

Whe I was there in 2001 security was as rude as they had been with all the people this year...
I made my mind up not to back to Corbeil at least it was my last option to see a International event in the year,so...
But It's a pity since Corbeil tournament is a tradicition in rsg...a little WC but It's not worthing!
Sorry for French federation...

Marina
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To err is human...to forgive is divine!

[ivan]

Cool down boys & girls )
You have your own opinions, they can or cannot be the same, but you should have in mind that:
1. Corbeil Essonnes tournament was, is and will be an nonofficial Wourld Champ in whatever sports hall it tooks place - 42 countries participating, and it started at 1973 with <10 )
2. Ukrainians were not there not because of the "bad conditions". If they were sure that Anna will be first for sure they would been there. It is more than clear. The second reason could be that the preparadness of their group at the moment is not as high as thouse of the groups of Russia, Bulgaria, Italy...So, what to go for ???
3. The conditions were the SAME as the previous years and the SAME for ALL 78 gymnasts and 4 groups taking part.
4. We can ONLY propose some ideas what and how to change something in the organization, but do not forget that the traditions and habits in different country are not the same. And everybody knows that only at our own home we can do what you want.
5. Of course the conditions should be specified in the Regulations, but, I should stress that this tournament in not new one and every not newcommer know them quite well. ))

[Guillermo]

The point that it has been the same for 30 years and for all gymnasts is not a reason to declare that it's GOOD. I can't tell about gymnasts conditions, but I can for the way that media representatives were treated by the security staff. We do understand things that are clearly exposed, same for all, and reasonably stated. We do not will to be shouted like dogs, pissed off by Cromagnon-looking "security" guys (as I said before, simple City Hall basic enployees feeling like Rambos with absolute power) and without any professional contact to complain to.

Telling that it might be other way in all the world but in France different is not a point either. Maybe the rest of the world is wrong and in France is OK, like someone told us during our trip to Corbeil (?).

Allowing one nationality's representatives to go everywhere and do what they want and all other not, is not only a discrimination, but unfair and completely discouraging for foreign media to come back there.

This is the best way to convert a "little World Championship" in another thing, making it all so much difficult for gymnasts, media and fans.

As said before: the competitive ans sportive organization, directed by Mr. Beau and the team of the local club is brilliant and nice, a great one, no complain, and if only they organised the event, it would be really other thing

The second part, the logistic, media and security one... simply regretable.

Not only my opinion, but that of all FOREIGN media representatives.

[Loolita]

Moreover Almudena Cid Tostado said that this tournoi where gymnast are the more numerous but also the tournoi where the the training conditions are not the best !!!
if media,fan and gymnasts aren't satisfied with the organisation there is something wrong in it.....
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[Esther TM]

[3. The conditions were the SAME as the previous years and the SAME for ALL 78 gymnasts and 4 groups taking part.

Yes, obviuosly the conditions were the same as last year for the press - I don't speak for the gymnasts. I have been there in 2003 and after the competition I said that it would be the best not to go again, but then I thought that maybe it was bad luck and that I should give Corbeil a second chance - so I went there this year. But now, after having experienced the rude and unpolite treatment for a second time, I know it's enough.

4. We can ONLY propose some ideas what and how to change something in the organization, but do not forget that the traditions and habits in different country are not the same. And everybody knows that only at our own home we can do what you want.

Of course that traditions and habits are different in every country, but I don't think that this has to mean to be rude and unpolite. I hope that the behaviour of the security men in Corbeil is not representative for the habits France, I would be very sorry for this beautiful country.

5. Of course the conditions should be specified in the Regulations, but, I should stress that this tournament in not new one and every not newcommer know them quite well. ))[/quote]

Sorry, but I don't know the regulations and specifications of the tournament, because one security man allows you to go through one door to the toilet (e.g.) and the next one shouts at you and grabs you by the arm. About what regulations do we talk then? I got the inmpression that every security man makes his one rules, besides the ones given by the organisation just to show you his power. Or how can you explain that one of those guys let us through to go to the press centre and the next one won't let us in again - even having advice from M. Beau to do so.

[Loolita]

no esther this behaviour is not representativ of the behaviour in France
this men of security give a bad image to my countrie and they are harmfull for the tournament
i hope the next year it will be different
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[Intellectra1]

come on, why do you critisize this competition so strongly, there are other competitions with the same or worse conditions which you particpated in... IH, in order to justify the absence of the UKR from the competition you use so much dirt against one of the biggest and most respected competitions and the most important ones in the world. Please note that these are the conditions not only for UKR team but for everybody and for each country. But the other countries had the dignity to respect the competition and the audience, not like your team who ecaped from the competition and the reason for this escape is not to be in direct confrontation with stronger teams than UKR. All the other words for the bad conditions are just dust in the eyes of the public. We all know the reasons why your team did not go... UKR team is afraid to lose before EC where A. Bessonova should win, so she should not be beaten not to lose points before the judges. It is so simple as this. At least Russia sent one of their best gymnasts, if not Kabaeva, but maybe UKR does not have enough gymnasts to represent the country at different competitions? just wondering...Ignoring Crobeil is showing deep scare in the ranks of Deryugins.

[Invisible Hedgehog]

Intelectra, have you ever been to Corbeil by saying this? If other federations are eager to make their gymnasts injured in front of Euros and Olimpics, Ukrainian is not. Bessonova's foot is quite bad anyway and we know the carpets of Corbeil and always after Corbeil Ukrainians had worsening of injuries. Godunko had some personal problems, I don't think I should tell them aloud. Soon we also have Ukrainian championship.

We could have sent younger gymnasts, but the decision about Corbeil was taken not a long time prior to the competition and there was not enough time to make visas for smaller girls - Galina Shirkina and Irina Kovalchuk
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